What the hell just happened!

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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  The Lone Ranger on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:27 pm

Steve Miller wrote:Name one U.S. citizen being held in Guantanamo. I have never heard of any!


Wink Yasser Hamdi.



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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  Steve Miller on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:47 pm

Hamdi was released from a Virginia Prison in 2004, he was captured with a group of Taliban fighters in Afganistan and sent to Cuba, after it was discovered he was (or had been) a U.S. citizen (he had already renounced his U.S. citizenship) he was moved to a Virginia prison, no one knows where he is now.

If he was killing Afgans and American soldiers while fighting for the Taliban (who were fighting for Bin Laden) then where should he have been sent?

The other U.S. citizen you are referring to was "Padilla" who was tried and convicted of conspiring to commit murder and terrorist acts (by a Jury) in Florida and sentenced to 17 years in SUPERMAX Colorado.

So Name ONE U.S. citizen who is being held in Cuba.
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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  The Lone Ranger on Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:59 pm

Steve Miller wrote:Hamdi was released from a Virginia Prison in 2004, he was captured with a group of Taliban fighters in Afganistan and sent to Cuba, after it was discovered he was (or had been) a U.S. citizen (he had already renounced his U.S. citizenship) he was moved to a Virginia prison, no one knows where he is now.

If he was killing Afgans and American soldiers while fighting for the Taliban (who were fighting for Bin Laden) then where should he have been sent?

The other U.S. citizen you are referring to was "Padilla" who was tried and convicted of conspiring to commit murder and terrorist acts (by a Jury) in Florida and sentenced to 17 years in SUPERMAX Colorado.

So Name ONE U.S. citizen who is being held in Cuba.

Cool Actually Thunder Hamdi was born in the U.S. and therefore is a U.S. citizen, he then lived in Saudi Arabia and went to the war in Afganistan . He was placed in Cuba for nearly 3 years. The point is they did hold a U.S. citizen in Cuba. He was not moved to a Virginia prison, he was sent back to Saudi Arabia, after he renounced his citizenship, part of his plea deal. It makes little difference whether a person is a citizen or not, they should not be held forever, with no charges made and no trial. Even a military trial. This war on terror will never end, anyone captured during it is held in limbo for the rest of their lives. Holy Man In The Iron Mask Batman! Have a blessed day.

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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  Steve Miller on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:43 pm

Again as usual you are wrong Hamdi was captured in Nov 2001 in Afghanistan he was transferred to Cuba in Feburary of 2002 in April of 2002 he was transferred to Norfolk Virginia (that is two months not "three years") in 2004, he "formally" renounced U.S. citizenship and was deported to Saudi Arabia upon his release. and he was only in U.S.custody for two years not three.

When a U.S. citizen takes up arms against his country's forces in a war he has already renounced his citizenship which he did in 2001, at the very least he should have been shot for treason.

But you still did not answer, name ONE U.S. citizen being held in Guantanamo.
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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  The Lone Ranger on Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:15 am

Steve Miller wrote:Again as usual you are wrong Hamdi was captured in Nov 2001 in Afghanistan he was transferred to Cuba in Feburary of 2002 in April of 2002 he was transferred to Norfolk Virginia (that is two months not "three years") in 2004, he "formally" renounced U.S. citizenship and was deported to Saudi Arabia upon his release. and he was only in U.S.custody for two years not three.

When a U.S. citizen takes up arms against his country's forces in a war he has already renounced his citizenship which he did in 2001, at the very least he should have been shot for treason.

But you still did not answer, name ONE U.S. citizen being held in Guantanamo.

Cool Even if so he was still held at Gitmo and he was a U.S. citizen that has been sent back to Saudi Arabia after renouncing his U.S. citizenship. So yes there was a citizen held even though it was for a brief time. Just because they changed his prison to Virgina, doesn't change the fact he was still held, with no charges made, and no speedy trial. You have mentioned one citizen sentenced to 17 years in prison. There were 99 U.S. citizens captured during the Afghanistan war what happened to the rest of them. Are they being held somewhere, what was their fates? We have only accounted for two on this forum. During the the Civil War it was U.S. citizen v.s U.S. citizen after the war everyone eventually became citizens again, should the losers not been pardoned? Thunder when you and the NRA take up arms against the government, which you believe is your right under the 2nd Amendment, will you lose your citizenship and deserve to be shot if you fail? Have a blessed day.

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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  Steve Miller on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:03 pm

The Lone Ranger wrote:
Steve Miller wrote:Again as usual you are wrong Hamdi was captured in Nov 2001 in Afghanistan he was transferred to Cuba in Feburary of 2002 in April of 2002 he was transferred to Norfolk Virginia (that is two months not "three years") in 2004, he "formally" renounced U.S. citizenship and was deported to Saudi Arabia upon his release. and he was only in U.S.custody for two years not three.

When a U.S. citizen takes up arms against his country's forces in a war he has already renounced his citizenship which he did in 2001, at the very least he should have been shot for treason.

But you still did not answer, name ONE U.S. citizen being held in Guantanamo.

Cool Even if so he was still held at Gitmo and he was a U.S. citizen that has been sent back to Saudi Arabia after renouncing his U.S. citizenship.

How could he have been "sent back" to Saudi Arabia he wasn't a citizen of that country was he?

He had renounced his citizenship when he took up arms against the citizens of this country in support of the terrorist who attacked us on 9-11.


So yes there was a citizen held even though it was for a brief time. Just because they changed his prison to Virgina, doesn't change the fact he was still held, with no charges made, and no speedy trial. You have mentioned one citizen sentenced to 17 years in prison. There were 99 U.S. citizens captured during the Afghanistan war what happened to the rest of them.

If they were U.S. citizens some were shot others beheaded! Any that were captured by U.S. troops may have been former U.S. citizens but like Hamid they to had already renounced their citizenship.

During the the Civil War it was U.S. citizen v.s U.S. citizen

As usual you are incorrect again, South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, Missouri, Kentucky, Confederate Territory of Arizona and the five Civilized Tribes made up the confederacy, these people had secessed from the United States and formed their on confederation of states known as the "Confederate States of America", the people there were citizens of the Confederation. Maryland tried to but the U.S. declared martial law sent the military in to take over the state houses, Delaware considered it as well but the split was too close.

after the war everyone eventually became citizens again, should the losers not been pardoned?

Many were rounded up and shot, others died in prison camps, the Southern economy was devastated and kept that way by carpetbaggers who came in to "run" the local and state governments. The former Confederate states did not recover from this until after 1945, that is 70 years.

Thunder when you and the NRA take up arms against the government, which you believe is your right under the 2nd Amendment, will you lose your citizenship and deserve to be shot if you fail? Have a blessed day.

If arms are taken up against the government it will be in defense of the Constitution and in defense of this Country, however if that were to fail, I would expect everyone who would be captured would be executed in some form or fashion, probably by being shot or beheaded.

But you were asked to name ONE U.S. Citizen BEING held in Cuba!


Last edited by Steve Miller on Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  Steve Miller on Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:35 pm

Cute kid here, reminds me of my daughter when she was 13.

http://biertijd.com/mediaplayer/?itemid=39579
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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  The Lone Ranger on Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:43 am

Steve Miller wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Steve Miller wrote:Again as usual you are wrong Hamdi was captured in Nov 2001 in Afghanistan he was transferred to Cuba in Feburary of 2002 in April of 2002 he was transferred to Norfolk Virginia (that is two months not "three years") in 2004, he "formally" renounced U.S. citizenship and was deported to Saudi Arabia upon his release. and he was only in U.S.custody for two years not three.

When a U.S. citizen takes up arms against his country's forces in a war he has already renounced his citizenship which he did in 2001, at the very least he should have been shot for treason.

But you still did not answer, name ONE U.S. citizen being held in Guantanamo.

Cool Even if so he was still held at Gitmo and he was a U.S. citizen that has been sent back to Saudi Arabia after renouncing his U.S. citizenship.

How could he have been "sent back" to Saudi Arabia he wasn't a citizen of that country was he?

He had renounced his citizenship when he took up arms against the citizens of this country in support of the terrorist who attacked us on 9-11.


So yes there was a citizen held even though it was for a brief time. Just because they changed his prison to Virgina, doesn't change the fact he was still held, with no charges made, and no speedy trial. You have mentioned one citizen sentenced to 17 years in prison. There were 99 U.S. citizens captured during the Afghanistan war what happened to the rest of them.

If they were U.S. citizens some were shot others beheaded! Any that were captured by U.S. troops may have been former U.S. citizens but like Hamid they to had already renounced their citizenship.

During the the Civil War it was U.S. citizen v.s U.S. citizen

As usual you are incorrect again, South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, Missouri, Kentucky, Confederate Territory of Arizona and the five Civilized Tribes made up the confederacy, these people had secessed from the United States and formed their on confederation of states known as the "Confederate States of America", the people there were citizens of the Confederation. Maryland tried to but the U.S. declared martial law sent the military in to take over the state houses, Delaware considered it as well but the split was too close.

after the war everyone eventually became citizens again, should the losers not been pardoned?

Many were rounded up and shot, others died in prison camps, the Southern economy was devastated and kept that way by carpetbaggers who came in to "run" the local and state governments. The former Confederate states did not recover from this until after 1945, that is 70 years.

Thunder when you and the NRA take up arms against the government, which you believe is your right under the 2nd Amendment, will you lose your citizenship and deserve to be shot if you fail? Have a blessed day.

If arms are taken up against the government it will be in defense of the Constitution and in defense of this Country, however if that were to fail, I would expect everyone who would be captured would be executed in some form or fashion, probably by being shot or beheaded.

But you were asked to name ONE U.S. Citizen BEING held in Cuba!

Cool Wrong again as usual Thunder Lincoln was a lawyer originally he believed that the South had no legal right to succeed from the Union. Therefore the Southerners never really stopped being U.S. citizens, there was never any foreign recognition of Southern Independence by any major foreign power. Although the South tried to get such recognition from both England and France. That is why after the war the Lincoln policy of letting the Southerners rejoin the country was carried out by his successor Andrew Johnson. It was Johnson who pardoned the rebels most of whom took the loyalty oath and were citizens once again. All Southern prisoners were released after the war. The only one held for anytime was Jefferson Davis. Some radical Republican congressmen wanted Robert E. Lee placed in prison as well, when general Grant and Sherman opposed such a policy, the matter was quickly dropped. If there were another large scale uprising I image it would be handled in much the same way. True there was a period of Reconstruction after the Civil War, but that ended in 1876. There were no mass executions after our Civil War unlike other civil wars in say Russia, China and other countries. As far as countries go we have been very forgiving of rebels.

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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  Steve Miller on Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:35 am

I believe those that were shot and hung would beg to differ with you.

Lincoln believed and that is fine, Jefferson Davis believed otherwise!

But you have still failed to answer the one request.......... Name ONE U.S. Citizen BEING held at Gitmo............
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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  The Lone Ranger on Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:38 am

Steve Miller wrote:I believe those that were shot and hung would beg to differ with you.

Lincoln believed and that is fine, Jefferson Davis believed otherwise!

But you have still failed to answer the one request.......... Name ONE U.S. Citizen BEING held at Gitmo............


I did answer your question one was held, you took the position none were held. The point is that we are currently holding prisoners of war, in a war the will never end, at least for the foreseeable future. These captured enemy soldiers, irregulars whatever you want to call them should have some closure. They should have charges brought against them and tried at least by a Military Tribunal, then we would have a legal reason to continue their imprisonment. There was an additional 99 U.S. citizens captured by our side during the Afghan War we only have gone over that fate of two of these citizens what happened to the rest? Jefferson Davis believed otherwise and that is why he sat in prison after the Civil War was over. The rest of the South came back into the Union. With the exception of the Southerners that went to Mexico for awhile, and some that started a small colony in Brazil. There were several shooting and hangings on both sides during the Civil War. After the war was over this on a large scale was over and order was restored. There were no mass shootings are hangings on the scale of the Russian and Chinese Civil Wars after the war was over. Have a blessed day.

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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  Steve Miller on Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:56 pm

There have been NO U.S. citizens captured by the U.S. Military in Afganistan. There may have been some "former" U.S. citizens taken but what you are not taking into consideration is the fact that they renounced their U.S. citizenship when they took up arms with the enemy. They are called "traitors".

18 U.S.C. § 2381

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000.
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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  The Lone Ranger on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:34 pm

Steve Miller wrote:There have been NO U.S. citizens captured by the U.S. Military in Afganistan. There may have been some "former" U.S. citizens taken but what you are not taking into consideration is the fact that they renounced their U.S. citizenship when they took up arms with the enemy. They are called "traitors".

18 U.S.C. § 2381

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000.

Cool Just go on the computer search under American detainees at Guantanamo Bay, it lists the fact that 99 U.S. citizens were captured during the Afghanistan war, and they are currently being held by the U.S. Government. This is located on Wikipedia, where they are being held is not gone into. By your definition any persons that take up arms against the elected government of this country is guilty of treason, this would include the NRA and whatever para military groups taking up arms against our government. The only way you wouldn't be a traitor is if the revolt succeeds. Other wise you would be subject to the same penalties for treason, suffering death, jail time, and fines. Hopefully before they would deprive you of your life, liberty or property, you would at least have a trial. This whole idea of holding people for years without any charges or a trial goes back to the day of an absolute monarch. Something we have not had in this country since we got rid of King George III. Have a blessed day.


Last edited by The Lone Ranger on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  Steve Miller on Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:52 am

Wikileaks? You are kidding right?


Well DUH!
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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  The Lone Ranger on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:47 am

Steve Miller wrote:Wikileaks? You are kidding right?


Well DUH!


Cool If Wikileaks is such bunk then why is our government putting such pressure on our Allies to give up the founder. There must be something to it when you have Britain and Sweden after the guy, usually the Swedes don't cave that easy. Oh by the way Thunder you did not respond to if the NRA and private citizens took up arms against the government, they would be traitors also by your legal example, wouldn't they?

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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  Steve Miller on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:02 am

The Lone Ranger wrote:
Steve Miller wrote:Wikileaks? You are kidding right?


Well DUH!


Cool If Wikileaks is such bunk then why is our government putting such pressure on our Allies to give up the founder. There must be something to it when you have Britain and Sweden after the guy, usually the Swedes don't cave that easy.


The U.S. has never charged Julian Assange with anything he is not "wanted" by the U.S., there was an attempt to get him as a witness in the espionage case against Bradley Manning. Sweden has never charged Assange with anything either. The extradiction attempt is because he is wanted for questioning by them in an investigation into a double rape case, which he is accused of. I believe he is now wanted in his own country Australia for fraud. Should the U.S. have charged him with something YES they should have.


The Lone Ranger wrote:Oh by the way Thunder you did not respond to if the NRA and private citizens took up arms against the government, they would be traitors also by your legal example, wouldn't they?

Well DUH!
was the answer! I can put in that Brian Helmut is a PIRATE on Wikipedia and it will print.
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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  The Lone Ranger on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:59 am

Steve Miller wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
Steve Miller wrote:Wikileaks? You are kidding right?


Well DUH!


Cool If Wikileaks is such bunk then why is our government putting such pressure on our Allies to give up the founder. There must be something to it when you have Britain and Sweden after the guy, usually the Swedes don't cave that easy.


The U.S. has never charged Julian Assange with anything he is not "wanted" by the U.S., there was an attempt to get him as a witness in the espionage case against Bradley Manning. Sweden has never charged Assange with anything either. The extradiction attempt is because he is wanted for questioning by them in an investigation into a double rape case, which he is accused of. I believe he is now wanted in his own country Australia for fraud. Should the U.S. have charged him with something YES they should have.


The Lone Ranger wrote:Oh by the way Thunder you did not respond to if the NRA and private citizens took up arms against the government, they would be traitors also by your legal example, wouldn't they?

Well DUH!
was the answer! I can put in that Brian Helmut is a PIRATE on Wikipedia and it will print.


Cool Maybe he has or not been charged Julian is still hiding in an embassy afraid to come out. Someone must want him bad, the reason he has not gone back to Sweden is he is afraid that he will be charged by the U.S. and sent back here. Have a blessed day.

P.S. Thanks for answering my question if a revolt is successful you are a patriot, if it fails you are a traitor.

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Re: What the hell just happened!

Post  Steve Miller on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:31 pm

Assange has violated laws in at least 7 countries of course he is wanted, mostly by Sweden for questioning in the rape of two of it's citizens.

It won't take him long to violate the laws in whatever country he ends up in, he thinks he is above any law. I can't think of a better place for him to live out his life other than a jail cell, than in a jail cell of his own creation. LOL
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